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a little underwhelmed by performance - looking for fixes

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Pheeew. I just tried out 6s on grass and tarmac. Had a hard time enjoying the experience - the whole time it felt like something was just bound to break. Maybe i'm just too much of a scaredy cat. I'll change tires & pinion before going that route again. I did finally manage a standing backflip on grass, though.

What diff fluid are you running in the rear. A heavier oil in the rear will lock it up more and get that front end to pop up more.
I am running 100,000 / 150,000 / 50,000 in front / center / rear. I understand why the center fluid makes a big difference for wheelies/flips, but i'm puzzled about the rear. Would you mind explaining to a novice?

I just put my first hard bash on mine today and it was insane on 4S. Standing backflips no problem. Would be uncontrollable if the suspension wasn’t absolutely amazing on this truck. You need to check your systems settings and TX. My max 8 hobbywing 4274 2200kv makes this thing nuts.
Would you mind sharing what tires and pinion you are using with that motor?
 
Pheeew. I just tried out 6s on grass and tarmac. Had a hard time enjoying the experience - the whole time it felt like something was just bound to break. Maybe i'm just too much of a scaredy cat. I'll change tires & pinion before going that route again. I did finally manage a standing backflip on grass, though.


I am running 100,000 / 150,000 / 50,000 in front / center / rear. I understand why the center fluid makes a big difference for wheelies/flips, but i'm puzzled about the rear. Would you mind explaining to a novice?


Would you mind sharing what tires and pinion you are using with that motor?
Proline “OG” badlands Vented and 18T pinion.
also my battery is turnigy bolt LiHv so it gives a little more juice.
 

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I am running 100,000 / 150,000 / 50,000 in front / center / rear. I understand why the center fluid makes a big difference for wheelies/flips, but i'm puzzled about the rear.

Would you mind explaining to a novice?

tekno tuning guide.png
 
The thicker the oil the less your diffs will "diff out". To do what you are trying to do you need the wheel to be spinning always not just which ever has the least resistance. If your rear fluid is lighter (like if you were racing) then the as soon one tire lift off the ground the opposite looses grip and will diff out because it has more resistance now, making the car drop back down.

Now you want the opposite. You don't want the rear to loose power when the front lifts up and both rear wheels to be spinning.

Thicker center oil will make the power more even front to back.
 
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I have run MX38's, CopperHead 2's, and both BackFlip's (LP and full size) on both 4s and 6s and I have never had a problem doing back flips in the air. I feel the MX38's are to big, for both looks and driving but that's just my option. I just started using the full size BackFlips vented and taped but I really like them. The BackFlip LP's were also good and I vented and taped them as well. The Copperhead 2's I like but I did not vent or tape them and they balloon quite a bit so I am in the process of doing that to them now. I have done standing backflips both on 4s and 6s but with the CopperHead 2's and like I said they were ballooning like crazy. For my power plant I have changed ESC's a few times from the HobbyWing XR8 Pro, HobbyWing Max 6, and the Mamba Monster X but always ran the HobbyWing XERUN 4274 2250kv G2 full sensored motor. The throttle response was the best when paired with a sensored ESC but for doing flips in the air all worked just fine. I run a 18 tooth pinion and I never had a problem with temps even with the MX38s. I run SMC batteries, 75C and 90C but there isn't a noticeable different between the two C ratings in my opinion.

Those are all my setup variation but one thing to remember is technique. In order to do a backflip you need to create a burst of tire rotation so if the wheels are at or close to max rotational speed on takeoff it would be hard to create that burst. So in looking at your sample video I can see you punched it after a few feet and kept it punched while traveling up the tree. If you let off a little as it is climbing and when the truck starts to pull away from the tree, nail it full throttle you should be able to create a burst and pull a flip. At least that is what I found to work when I'm backflipping off of a tree. Now landing it and not breaking anything in the process is another story. I am by no means an expert but something I learned along the way with many failed attempts in the process.
 
Standing backflips are fun and will impress any girl but this can't be good for parts in the long run. Maybe I'm just a little overprotective of my new baby. ?
Heck my son's Arrma Big Rock 3s will wheelie forever. Maybe it would back flip if I removed the wheelie bar. :unsure:
 
Hi everyone!

My 4s LiPo has arrived and i have taken the new MT410 to the forest. I had a lot of fun, and my custom shell had a tough time.
However, I am not yet happy with the overall performance. I decided for a short wheelbase RC because i wanted to do wild stuff that my short course cannot do, like standing backflips. Those are out of the question, though. The best i can do from a standstill is roll the truck on it's back like a turtle. While i managed some frontflips during jumps by pulling the brakes right after lift off, backflips won't work during jumps either. I was also hoping to see backflips off of logs laying around, but no dice.
Looking at videos, people seem to have very granular control of angular momentum during jumps, and can easily rotate the truck in either direction. I am not yet an experienced driver, so my control is probably lacking. But it just seems like i don't get that kind of response from the truck at all, no matter what i do.

I'm not sure where i start adressing this, so i was hoping to get some pointers from you guys. Is 4s just not enough power? Do i have the wrong tires? Too much drag from the body? Any input is appreciated.

Some technical specs:
-Hobbywing ezrun max8 ESC (punch set to 5/5)
-Tenshock X802 v2, 2200kv motor
-15t pinion
-Proline Badlands 3.8
-Goldbat LiPo, 4s, 5000mAh, rated 55c


My ET48.3 easily does standing back flips without even going close to full throttle on 4s with any of my Proline 3.8 setups. I use the Tekin RX8 Gen3 in all my 1/8 Tekno rigs, and in my truggy Ive got it paired with the Tekin T8 2250kv truggy spec motor and Protek LiHV 4s 6500mah graphene batteries. Most of the time I run 18 to 22t pinions, and as long as my center diff is at at least 150k fluid my ET48.3 is a flipping machine, even being quite a bit longer than the MT, but I can still nail them everytime on the street or grass.
 
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For you guys who can pull (standing) backflips on 4s: Would you mind sharing what tires & pinion you are using?

I can do backflips in the grass from a complete standstill on 3S, let alone 4S, with a 16T pinion and 2200kv castle combo system using the Duratrax Sixpack (1/2" offset) tires. These tires are perfect for 3s, but even w/ the 1/2" offset, there are body rub issues and more-so on 4s due to balooning.

VERY fun backyard bashing on 3s with the six packs though. I even double-backflipped off a small skateboard ramp in my back yard. Also (and this might be completely in my head) the castle setup seems to have much more instant/snappy response on sensored operation vs non (it runs either way). I'm still waiting on my free castle link, so the only programming I've done was to switch "forward" motor direction.
 
I can't figure out why that would be the case. This is the castle 1515 2200kv, 16T pinion, punch at 30% (0% being'max' punchiness), on a Gens Ace 4s. Suspension, diffs, etc still stock weights

Currently mine is running an Arrma BLX system on 6s, 15T, max punch and it's struggling to do standing backflips, my oil setup is F100/500/60R..
It's puzzling ? why it doesn't work...

I'm going to change the ESC this weekend to a Max8 I've got lying around and see how it goes..??
 
Currently mine is running an Arrma BLX system on 6s, 15T, max punch and it's struggling to do standing backflips, my oil setup is F100/500/60R..
It's puzzling ? why it doesn't work...

I'm going to change the ESC this weekend to a Max8 I've got lying around and see how it goes..??
What wheels are you using?
 
Currently using Copperhead 2's but may try Backflip LP's, maybe the copperheads are just that bit too big a diameter..?
I don't know about the Copperheads, but my general experience (both on grass and in the air) is that you have less backflippiness with smaller/lighter tires. This is, of course, limited by grip as well if you're talking about standing backflips.

The larger the rotational mass, the more of an effect throttle/brake will have on the car. I don't even use my SixPacks anymore because they made the car almost uncontrollably flippy on 4S, and they could do standing backflips on 3S. Here are my tires from most-flippy to least flippy:

- Duratrax Six-pack
- dboots blackflip 6s
- dboots blackflip LP
- minokawa LP

And here there are lined up for a size comparison:
mt410 tires lineup.jpg
 
I don't know about the Copperheads, but my general experience (both on grass and in the air) is that you have less backflippiness with smaller/lighter tires. This is, of course, limited by grip as well if you're talking about standing backflips.

The larger the rotational mass, the more of an effect throttle/brake will have on the car. I don't even use my SixPacks anymore because they made the car almost uncontrollably flippy on 4S, and they could do standing backflips on 3S. Here are my tires from most-flippy to least flippy:

- Duratrax Six-pack
- dboots blackflip 6s
- dboots blackflip LP
- minokawa LP

And here there are lined up for a size comparison:
View attachment 4764
I have submitted the word backflippiness to Oxford dictionary for review and addition to their newest publication. ?
I will also add this word to my sons spelling list during daily home schooling sessions. ?
 
I just put my first hard bash on mine today and it was insane on 4S. Standing backflips no problem. Would be uncontrollable if the suspension wasn’t absolutely amazing on this truck. You need to check your systems settings and TX. My max 8 hobbywing 4274 2200kv makes this thing nuts.
What size pinion are you using? I have the same set up using 16T and it won't standing backflip on 4s.
 
Hi, im running a 4s 5000mah on my hobbywing max8 2200kv on punch 5 and I can do a standing backflip and wheelies! all the way down my street. I'm also using the stock oils that came with the mt410 all around this truck is amazing!! I'm also new to the hobby myself and these are the tires I'm running on mine now till I get my 4s arrma tires in real soon.
Oh excuse the news paper just oiles all bearing down today after bashing today in the snow again.
 

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For you guys who can pull (standing) backflips on 4s: Would you mind sharing what tires & pinion you are using?
Standing backflips require either super heavy weight fluid in the center diff or a spool. Otherwise as soon as you lift the front tires off the ground, most or all of your power go to them. I don't recommend spools as they are hard on the driveline. You can buy 20million weight fluid or alternatively you can get silicone ear plugs. You just shove the ear plugs in the diff and work them in with a screwdriver or something.

Another thing you need is traction. It won't work in super loose dirt or in fallen leaves, or on slick surfaces like tile. Grass with aggressive tire tread or asphalt/concrete are your best best.

Tires that balloon will also help. Getting that rotating mass out exerts gyroscopic forces on your truck to pull it around.

The last thing you need is to find the right pinion for your motor. If you get one that is too large you will have plenty of wheel speed, but it will come too slowly to help flip you over. If you get one too small you will spin up your tires quickly but might not reach the speed required.

It is definitely possible on 4s. I used to do double backflips with my E-revo, which had a longer wheel base. It also stripped the diffs nearly every single time but that's another story.
 

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