Steering / Camber/ Toe

[Loyd]

Hello Tekno,

Recently completed 410.3 build and need some help with tuning the front end. With the right side of car laying flat on the outside of tires the left side is clearly toed out and there is positive camber. Or laying on left side right side is toed out. Attached are pictures illustrating my situation and my measurements of the camber (both sides mounted stock) and steering links. I have read on this forum that it is ideal for both steering links to be near identical in length as possible.
My plan is to shorten the right steering link to correct the toe out and make both links more similar in length. Then adjust camber of left wheel by shortening this link. This makes sense in my head but by shortening left camber link I will be making the difference between both camber links greater which is why I thought to check on the forum. Any thoughts/suggestions and tips on how to perform/measure this tune would be awesome. Thank You!

 

[Loyd]

Hello Tekno,

Recently completed 410.3 build and need some help with tuning the front end. With the right side of car laying flat on the outside of tires the left side is clearly toed out and there is positive camber. Or laying on left side right side is toed out. Attached are pictures illustrating my situation and my measurements of the camber (both sides mounted stock) and steering links. I have read on this forum that it is ideal for both steering links to be near identical in length as possible.
My plan is to shorten the right steering link to correct the toe out and make both links more similar in length. Then adjust camber of left wheel by shortening this link. This makes sense in my head but by shortening left camber link I will be making the difference between both camber links greater which is why I thought to check on the forum. Any thoughts/suggestions and tips on how to perform/measure this tune would be awesome. Thank You!

In the picture it is apparent that both rear tires have a smidge of toe in. I assume this is ok because everything is stock and there is no steering movement and they look symmetrical. Good?

 

[Billl DeLong]

it will be impossible to get 100% accurate results without a setup station but I will walk through the order of how I setup a new build:

1) center the ackermann plate with servo centered, adjust the link to the servo arm until the ackermann plate is centered, do not adjust trim on radio, keep radio centered as well

2) Set ride height - I will push down the chassis so it bottoms out on the table and let the force of the springs dictate the natural ride height as they de-compress and use a ride height gauge to adjust shock collars to desired ride height. For SCT I like 25mm front and 27mm rear for a good starting point

3) Set Toe - Very important for length of both steering links to be identical and this is only possible if you properly centered the ackermann plate, note that ride height will change toe/camber where I start with 0° toe

4) Set Camber - I press the chassis flat the same as setting ride height and use a camber gauge with a starting point of -2° on front and rear respectively

5) verify EPA is set without any binding on servo when turning full lock (with car on ground), reduce left/right EPA if necessary so you don't damage servo

6) Test drive car to check for center, do not adjust trim on radio, adjust the link next to servo arm until car tracks straight, this ensures you get equal steering throw in both directions. Drive a figure 8 with full lock in each direction to verify the circles are identical with a perfect figure 8 every time

More info on my setup here:
https://www.teknoforums.com/threads/build-review-sct410-3.1389/

 

[Loyd]

it will be impossible to get 100% accurate results without a setup station but I will walk through the order of how I setup a new build:

1) center the ackermann plate with servo centered, adjust the link to the servo arm until the ackermann plate is centered, do not adjust trim on radio, keep radio centered as well

2) Set ride height - I will push down the chassis so it bottoms out on the table and let the force of the springs dictate the natural ride height as they de-compress and use a ride height gauge to adjust shock collars to desired ride height. For SCT I like 25mm front and 27mm rear for a good starting point

3) Set Toe - Very important for length of both steering links to be identical and this is only possible if you properly centered the ackermann plate, note that ride height will change toe/camber where I start with 0° toe

4) Set Camber - I press the chassis flat the same as setting ride height and use a camber gauge with a starting point of -2° on front and rear respectively

5) verify EPA is set without any binding on servo when turning full lock (with car on ground), reduce left/right EPA if necessary so you don't damage servo

6) Test drive car to check for center, do not adjust trim on radio, adjust the link next to servo arm until car tracks straight, this ensures you get equal steering throw in both directions. Drive a figure 8 with full lock in each direction to verify the circles are identical with a perfect figure 8 every time

More info on my setup here:
https://www.teknoforums.com/threads/build-review-sct410-3.1389/

Thank You BILL! My first highly tunable truck....so being able to adjust AND in what order is new to me. It makes sense to evaluate/adjust geometry starting with a properly centered ackermann.
Also thank you for suggesting ride height starting points. I now know this should be done first and am not really looking forward to it. I have the aluminum adjustment nuts and found them very tight (I think because of the rubber ring) when building shocks.
Have a good one!

 

[Billl DeLong]

no problem, it might be worth it to review the build thread I linked which covers many build tips to help you out, one of the more important things is to break in the rod ends with a drill to make it phenomenally easier to adjust the camber links :

https://www.teknoforums.com/threads/build-review-sct410-3.1389/post-11792

 

[Loyd]

no problem, it might be worth it to review the build thread I linked which covers many build tips to help you out, one of the more important things is to break in the rod ends with a drill to make it phenomenally easier to adjust the camber links :

https://www.teknoforums.com/threads/build-review-sct410-3.1389/post-11792

YES BILL YES! I read through your build post (among many others elsewhere by you) in detail before I ordered the truck. I admit I was hesitant to chuck the links after trying with wrenches but quickly realized the ease at which they come together with a drill using your exact steps (in and out a few times) and I think more true than muscling with a wrench. NOW I understand how much easier tuning will be. THANK YOU for sharing your wisdom!

 

[nub]

I do similar to the rod end break in with the shock collars before building the shocks. Put a little o-ring grease on the shock body and run them up and down several times. Clean the grease off after so it doesn't attract dirt. This is my least favorite part of building these.

If you haven't broken in these o-rings be careful when adjusting your ride height. You can unscrew the shock body from the shock cap if you're not paying attention.

An inexpensive digital caliper can be helpful with getting your links equal lengths if don't already have one.

 

[Loyd]

I do similar to the rod end break in with the shock collars before building the shocks. Put a little o-ring grease on the shock body and run them up and down several times. Clean the grease off after so it doesn't attract dirt. This is my least favorite part of building these.

If you haven't broken in these o-rings be careful when adjusting your ride height. You can unscrew the shock body from the shock cap if you're not paying attention.

An inexpensive digital caliper can be helpful with getting your links equal lengths if don't already have one.

The only two things that frustrated me building this truck was installing the small nut under the servo saver after steering assembly was installed and the aluminum shock collars. Other than that everything is going smoothly. I will certainly break in the collars and o-rings per your suggestion. Thanks NUB!

 

[nub]

The only two things that frustrated me building this truck was installing the small nut under the servo saver after steering assembly was installed

Yea that can be annoying. How many times did you drop your nut? For future maintenance you can use a screw with the link out of the way pushed through and attach the nut and pull it into the slot, hold it with a finger from under and attach the link, if that makes sense. If you have extra hardware and a longer screw to use it makes it easier to get the nut on and pull it in to place.

Some of those captured nut areas I've trimmed away flat so I can get a nut driver or wrench on. If you over tighten on assembly and then want to take it apart the plastic that's supposed to hold the nut will flex letting the nut spin in the slot. You'll need to find a way to clamp down on it to hold the nut with some needle nose or slip joint pliers. Without going to look I think the kit ackermann plate, camber links at the hubs and servo link to servo saver are like that.