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New Motor for 6s

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DangerD

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Hi,

i am running a LWB MT on 6s with a Max8 2200kv Combo right now and want to switch to bit lower KV. I dont need the speed the 2200kv can put out and like to have more options to work with gears (allready down to a 15T at the moment). I love how the truck/truggy is handling but i am afraid i am pushing the motor a bit to much (messured 3kw on gravel on sprints). I will add a 9000uF 6s Powerbank next.

So i am looking for a robust motor in the 1500-1700KV range that i can keep running on my max8 esc even in summer times.

Would the TPPower 4060 1750KV be a solid option? With a 16T pinion this should stay a lot cooler, still be fast enough for me and only add 100g.

WhatsApp Image 2019-12-18 at 23.25.58.jpeg
 
I'm sure there are plenty of great options, I have experience with Tenshock X802L 1750kv 6 pole in a similar size Sworkz Zeus. Explosive power. I've paired it with HW ezrun Max 8.
 
Well i did bite the bullet and ordered a tp4060 1650kv. I will stay on 15/16T with 6s and keep watching esc temps. Hope i am lucky and it will work fine on the max8.
 
Well i did bite the bullet and ordered a tp4060 1650kv. I will stay on 15/16T with 6s and keep watching esc temps. Hope i am lucky and it will work fine on the max8.
Should work great. I run a Hobbystar 4082 1600kv that runs great on 6S. When running hard in the summer it just about stays within safe temperatures.
 
So installed the TP 4060 with 1650KV. Still on 15T @6s.
I also switched rear diff oil to 50k (from stock 100k) and added a fine mesh dirt cover to the chassis.

The motor i received had a non sealed end cap (large vent. holes) wich i sealed with heat resistant tape on the inside and plastidip on the outside. i also closed all holes on the top cap.

First run ~ 10-12min on gravel, ~8°C ambient temperature. Lots of acceleration, power dirfts etc.
Top speed went down noticable wich is fine, but i had the feeling also torque went down a bit wich i cant really understand. This could also be lost power due to wheel spin, i will have to test it on other surface again.

ESC was still kinda cool but motor was allready hot.

I will have a little bash with jumping tomorrow and take messurements of power consumption and temps - right now i have mixed feelings about the setup.

WhatsApp Image 2019-12-25 at 15.39.17.jpegWhatsApp Image 2019-12-25 at 15.39.18.jpegWhatsApp Image 2019-12-25 at 15.49.22.jpeg
 
What's in your center diff try 500k if possible , also how good is your battery to motors require a healthy lipo .
 
center diff is still on 100k (stock).
battery is fresh, however it might be not be best quality - my 3.3v lipo beeper kicks in on full thottle some times.
 
Can you try another lipo do you have a setting on the esc to limit the drain on your lipo can set it to normal ie power setting
 
They are the strongest i have rated at 40c with 4500mha. I have to look into esc settings but i think im allready kinda low on 2/5.
 
So i had my runs today. Still on 15T/6s, Punch 2/5, Badlands 3.8.

Ambient 3°C/ 40°F
Max Temps ESC ~ 25°C/75°F /// Motor 55°C/131°F

Acceleration is great, i can send the truggy high and far even with little approach. However i get very little to none backspin impulse on throttle in air.

I dont get why the motor is getting pretty warm while the esc stays cold. It is geared very conservative and running small wheels. I will add 2x 40mm fans to it now, maybe no airflow under the mesh dirt cover is just to much even under these low ambient temps.
To get the truck responsive in air i would have to add bigger wheels and maybe more punch on the esc. But both will put more stress on the motor. I also had broken spider gears in the rear 2x times in the past running my big joe II wheels. I guess i will try backflip lp 6s next, they should be a bit lighter but still give more response in air.
 
Your motor is on the cold side . 150 would be the idea temp . I just saw you are running Badlands tires . Fairly lightweight and smallish diameter. If you are fine with the performance leave as is , but you could gear up a tooth or two based on your esc and motor temps . Almost forgot where is the battery temping at the end of the run ?
 
The motor i received had a non sealed end cap (large vent. holes) wich i sealed with heat resistant tape on the inside and plastidip on the outside. i also closed all holes on the top cap..
The mesh increases temps for sure, but it does so for both motor and ESC. It sounds like your motor is generating too much heat compared to the ESC AND you are running in fairly cold weather.

Do you need to seal the cap as mentioned above?

Other thought: is the rather small pinion generating too much RPM and increasing the heat in the motor?

Hopefully someone running that motor can chime in.
 
Yes, the openings on the motor are very large and i would get dirt in it for shure if not sealed. TP also sells these motors with sealed end caps them self.

I dont think high rpm can be the issue as the motor is rated for 50k and i only can get it up to 36.6k max. on 6s flat out.
 
Yes, the openings on the motor are very large and i would get dirt in it for shure if not sealed. TP also sells these motors with sealed end caps them self.

I dont think high rpm can be the issue as the motor is rated for 50k and i only can get it up to 36.6k max. on 6s flat out.

Makes sense, did you check any possible faulty bearing in the motor?

I would drop the old motor in with current setup and do a direct comparison. Comparing data side-by-side will clear things out or at least highlight the issue.

This thing should be handling things without breaking a sweat...
 
Your motor is on the cold side . 150 would be the idea temp ...... Almost forgot where is the battery temping at the end of the run ?

Well i was running at 40°F, i kinda fear this thing will get very hot at summer time. Battery temp was pretty normal. However i noticed my 3.3V Lipo warner kicks in kinda immediately when i punch the throttle for more than 2-3 seconds, even on a fresh pack (New Packs, only 6-8 runs each.). Could be the cheap lipo warner or the packs not holding up to there rating.


Makes sense, did you check any possible faulty bearing in the motor?

I would drop the old motor in with current setup and do a direct comparison. Comparing data side-by-side will clear things out or at least highlight the issue.

The Motor feels fine, no slop in the motor shaft at all.



I will wait for my new tires, up the punch 1 level, add two 40mm fans and some fins to the motor and keep monitoring temps to get more data. With the bigger tires the truck should be plenty fast even with the 15T.

Screenshot_20191227-004011_RCSpeed.jpg
 
So i had a run with my big joe II wheels. Still on punch 2/5 on the esc and a 15T pinion on motor.

Air control was great, the truck did instantly go into backflips on gentle throttle inputs, it also did wheelie pretty hard on straights. Tyres balooned like hell, so i wasnt able to get real fast runs. Measured max power 3500W, im shure i could get it to draw some more with better handling tires.

Ambient ~ 8°C / 46°F
ESC ~40°C / 104°F
Motor ~65°C / 150°F (still no fans)
Lipo ~ 28°C / 83°F

So ESC is still doing fine, however the motor needs improved cooling for summer temps.

Had some nice jumps and one bad landing on the rear. One little spider diff chipped again... i dont know if why, but when ever i run those stupid big joe II wheels i kill a rear diff (3rd time now), front and mid are holing up fine.

I will rebuild the rear diff again and wait for a set of backflip lp 6s.
 
Little Update.
I did rebuild my Rear diff and installed a Yeah Heatsink (had only 1 weakish fan at hand) and the Backflip LP6s. The Yeah Heatsink is a little to big for a 40mm TP Motor and i had to add a bit dense foam as spacer on the rear, but the fins have tight and even contact now.

WhatsApp Image 2019-12-31 at 14.46.22.jpeg

Did a 6s Lipo today, still on 15T.

Handling much better than with the Big Joe II, Top Speed was more than enough and the Truck still super stable on gravel - the tyres balooned just a little bit.
Also Aircontroll was fine. While my Badlands 3.8 had next to zero aircontroll and the BJ II violently flipped the truck in air the Backflip 6s feel alot more controlled. Big supprise rear diff is still alive...

We had only 0°C/30°F so i did only gentle ~3-4m/10-13f long jumping and single backflips.

Temps after a full pack and 3min. of speed runs/powerdrifting at the end:

Ambient temp 0°C/30°F
ESC temp 35°C/95°F
Motor temp 40°C/100°F
Lipo temp 35°C/95°F

Lipo was a limiting factor, i had permanent Lipowarner Alerts on full throttle.

Overall i would go with a max length tp4070 (40*100mm) 1200-1300kv for a dedicated 6s rig if i had to switch again.
 
So i had a run with my big joe II wheels. Still on punch 2/5 on the esc and a 15T pinion on motor.

Air control was great, the truck did instantly go into backflips on gentle throttle inputs, it also did wheelie pretty hard on straights. Tyres balooned like hell, so i wasnt able to get real fast runs. Measured max power 3500W, im shure i could get it to draw some more with better handling tires.

Ambient ~ 8°C / 46°F
ESC ~40°C / 104°F
Motor ~65°C / 150°F (still no fans)
Lipo ~ 28°C / 83°F

So ESC is still doing fine, however the motor needs improved cooling for summer temps.

Had some nice jumps and one bad landing on the rear. One little spider diff chipped again... i dont know if why, but when ever i run those stupid big joe II wheels i kill a rear diff (3rd time now), front and mid are holing up fine.

I will rebuild the rear diff again and wait for a set of backflip lp 6s.

So your spider gear chipped? I'm surprised they could chip if they are freely spinning. I wonder if your cross pins bent and prevented the gears from spinning which resulted in a jam/break. Have you taken a close look at your diff cross pins? I recently had an issue where my stock diff cross pin deformed/bent and it prevented my spider gear from spinning properly. I wonder if that happened to you. Are you using the stock cross pins or the upgraded aluminum ones? I recently switched to the TKR5149A aluminum ones.
 
i only used the stock ones. i tested the diff everytime i rebuild it and it did always work fine.
so far i had 3 times one of the small spiders break on me - always when running the big joe ii tires after 2-3 packs max. and always in the rear diff. the diff pins never broke or bend. just the little spiders loose theeth.
stock plastik front and m2c center diff all run the first set of gears. its just the rear that keeps busting ;)

i checked my rear drive shafts, the diff housing and diff case. they all are fine.
 

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