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Help choosing a different motor

Tekno_craze

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Hello again everyone. Just wanted to get some input on possibly sizing up on my motor maybe just some motor info in general. So here’s my situation. I just got my m2c wide chassis and m2c shock towers in the mail. I figured since I’m doing these upgrades, I’d like to get a little more power out of the truck while keeping temps pretty minimal. I have the hobbywing max8 2200kv combo on right now with an 18t pinion, car is a BEAST but seems to get a little warmer than id like. I was thinking of doing a long can setup and relocating the esc using the m2c included plate. Would I benefit from going with a long can motor, say a tp motor 4060? Should I go up in the kv or down in the kv? I understand how the kv and size of the motors work, but I’m still a little gone on how exactly they effect the power of the truck. I’ve seen people say that lower kv=more torque and Visa versa, but I’ve seen videos explaining how it’s the depth and number of windings on the spools that show the torque curve of the motors. Any input is much appreciated! Thank you!
 

Guy on a Moose

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So I’ve been looking at a bigger can myself. Currently running on 4s and plan to stay at 4. I’m running a 4068mm can 2100kv with 18t. What voltage do you plan to run will be the major deciding factor, next to current limit of esc. 2000-2200kv sweet spot for 4s. 1500-1700 6s from what I’ve gathered.

edit: a motors size L x D allows a motor to produce more power. 3000watts of power from a tp4060. Kv is essentially your desired rpm you want at your specified voltage. This will keep your amp load In check. Amps=heat.
Watts(power)=Volts x amps.

3000watts at 4s 16.8v is 178amps
3000watts at 6s 25.2v is 119amps

gearing will extract the power from this equation, and allow you to use the motor at its full potential.
An esc can only flow so much current. Wether it’s 150amps at 4s or 150amps at 6s.

where I get lost at is a motors torque constant. That changes with kv and poles.
 
Last edited:

Tekno_craze

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So I’ve been looking at a bigger can myself. Currently running on 4s and plan to stay at 4. I’m running a 4068mm can 2100kv with 18t. What voltage do you plan to run will be the major deciding factor, next to current limit of esc. 2000-2200kv sweet spot for 4s. 1500-1700 6s from what I’ve gathered.

edit: a motors size L x D allows a motor to produce more power. 3000watts of power from a tp4060. Kv is essentially your desired rpm you want at your specified voltage. This will keep your amp load In check. Amps=heat.
Watts(power)=Volts x amps.

3000watts at 4s 16.8v is 178amps
3000watts at 6s 25.2v is 119amps

gearing will extract the power from this equation, and allow you to use the motor at its full potential.
An esc can only flow so much current. Wether it’s 150amps at 4s or 150amps at 6s.

where I get lost at is a motors torque constant. That changes with kv and poles.
Thanks for you reply man! I definitely plan on staying 4s! I was thinking of doing a long can motor setup with maybe say a max 6/max5 esc. I’m just torn on what motor to go with. What motor were you thinking of doing? I love my 4274 and it’s really nice with a 18t pinion and 4s except it gets a little too hot for my liking. I’d really like to have this same power, if not a little more, but keeping temps at a relatively cool value to keep the motor in tact
 

Guy on a Moose

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well I was thinking about ordering a hobbystar 4082 2000kv. Run on 4s with 19-20t pinion. Should be good for 100kpm. I ride on dboots backflip lp. They ballon less and are lighter than mx38. I like the castle mamba x series controllers. There is no current limiting like there is on hw controllers. It is a both an attribute and a clutch. It’s easy to fry unless you stay within its boundaries. Then there is data logging. You can see how much current/volts/watts your system is providing/consuming. My bash’s logs show 150-160amp peaks and around 20amp average. 150° esc temp. Motor warm but not scalding(I need a new temp gun). I have been running in 0°c weather as well so that helps temps but not current supply.
 

Tekno_craze

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I may
well I was thinking about ordering a hobbystar 4082 2000kv. Run on 4s with 19-20t pinion. Should be good for 100kpm. I ride on dboots backflip lp. They ballon less and are lighter than mx38. I like the castle mamba x series controllers. There is no current limiting like there is on hw controllers. It is a both an attribute and a clutch. It’s easy to fry unless you stay within its boundaries. Then there is data logging. You can see how much current/volts/watts your system is providing/consuming. My bash’s logs show 150-160amp peaks and around 20amp average. 150° esc temp. Motor warm but not scalding(I need a new temp gun). I have been running in 0°c weather as well so that helps temps but not current supply.
I may replicate that setup, just ordered the mamba monster X, just need to choose the engine now!
 

NO02

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Tekno RC's
  1. ET48
  2. MT410
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So I’ve been looking at a bigger can myself. Currently running on 4s and plan to stay at 4. I’m running a 4068mm can 2100kv with 18t. What voltage do you plan to run will be the major deciding factor, next to current limit of esc. 2000-2200kv sweet spot for 4s. 1500-1700 6s from what I’ve gathered.

edit: a motors size L x D allows a motor to produce more power. 3000watts of power from a tp4060. Kv is essentially your desired rpm you want at your specified voltage. This will keep your amp load In check. Amps=heat.
Watts(power)=Volts x amps.

3000watts at 4s 16.8v is 178amps
3000watts at 6s 25.2v is 119amps

gearing will extract the power from this equation, and allow you to use the motor at its full potential.
An esc can only flow so much current. Wether it’s 150amps at 4s or 150amps at 6s.

where I get lost at is a motors torque constant. That changes with kv and poles.
Adding onto the point you made about gearing:

You can produce the same amount of power (watts) on a 6s setup as a 4s setup while drawing less current (amps) for the benefit of less heat like you mentioned. However, the load on the motor has to be proportionally less. If the load remains the same then the motor will draw more current since its running at a higher electrical potential (volts) and therefore run hotter.

You can reduce the load on a motor by gearing up (smaller pinion, bigger spur) or by switching to smaller tires. Also, lower kV motors draw less current for the same voltage and load as higher kV motors. Since the MT410 requires at minimum a 15t pinion on a 40mm can and at most a 44t spur, we have to drop motor kV. Otherwise we could just gear super high and achieve the same top speed.

So here's what I came up with if you want to go to a 6s setup and have the benefit of running cooler with the same top speed.

Aiming for around 55mph, fast and plenty for bashing (blue is constant):
Pinion17t15t
Spur4444
Trans Ratio 4.444.44
Tire Diameter (backflip LPs)154mm154mm
Motor kV2200kV 1650kV
LiPo Cells4s6s
Top Speed:53.8753.47
 

Guy on a Moose

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Adding onto the point you made about gearing:

You can produce the same amount of power (watts) on a 6s setup as a 4s setup while drawing less current (amps) for the benefit of less heat like you mentioned. However, the load on the motor has to be proportionally less. If the load remains the same then the motor will draw more current since its running at a higher electrical potential (volts) and therefore run hotter.

You can reduce the load on a motor by gearing up (smaller pinion, bigger spur) or by switching to smaller tires. Also, lower kV motors draw less current for the same voltage and load as higher kV motors. Since the MT410 requires at minimum a 15t pinion on a 40mm can and at most a 44t spur, we have to drop motor kV. Otherwise we could just gear super high and achieve the same top speed.

So here's what I came up with if you want to go to a 6s setup and have the benefit of running cooler with the same top speed.

Aiming for around 55mph, fast and plenty for bashing (blue is constant):
Pinion17t15t
Spur4444
Trans Ratio 4.444.44
Tire Diameter (backflip LPs)154mm154mm
Motor kV2200kV1650kV
LiPo Cells4s6s
Top Speed:53.8753.47
I agree 90% with what your a saying. I am also not an expert by any means.

the gearing. weight, size, air resistance all that physics based on the vehicle is the load. 4 or 6s the load is the same.
say your target speed is 60mph. With a 2000kv motor. Gear each voltage accordingly to hit target speed the higher voltage pass will see less current. If you keep same gearing you used with higher voltage you are asking for to much power from the motor so now the motor is told to go faster but it can’t so current peaks out(batt performance) asking for all the amps but the motor turns amps into heat. I think we are saying the same thing??
 

NO02

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Tekno RC's
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  2. MT410
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I agree 90% with what your a saying. I am also not an expert by any means.

the gearing. weight, size, air resistance all that physics based on the vehicle is the load. 4 or 6s the load is the same.
say your target speed is 60mph. With a 2000kv motor. Gear each voltage accordingly to hit target speed the higher voltage pass will see less current. If you keep same gearing you used with higher voltage you are asking for to much power from the motor so now the motor is told to go faster but it can’t so current peaks out(batt performance) asking for all the amps but the motor turns amps into heat. I think we are saying the same thing??
Not an expert either haha,

Yes we're on the same page.

In every system there is a limiting factor. If it's the batteries then at a certain rate of current draw they'll get very hot and voltage ripple will occur which will damage the ESC. If it's the motor or ESC they'll run very hot as well.

The interesting thing about RC is that it's all about experimentation, trial and error. Finding out what works is a matter of testing. You can't really calculate accurate temperatures, speeds, current draw, etc. ahead of time unless you're an experienced engineer. What helps us is being able to see what others do.
 

Guy on a Moose

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Not an expert either haha,

Yes we're on the same page.

In every system there is a limiting factor. If it's the batteries then at a certain rate of current draw they'll get very hot and voltage ripple will occur which will damage the ESC. If it's the motor or ESC they'll run very hot as well.

The interesting thing about RC is that it's all about experimentation, trial and error. Finding out what works is a matter of testing. You can't really calculate accurate temperatures, speeds, current draw, etc. ahead of time unless you're an experienced engineer. What helps us is being able to see what others do.
Yup exactly I love this stuff! Really our only limit is temperature and motor rpm.
 

Tekno_craze

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I think the motors I’ve been kind of narrowing it down to have been the castle 1717 1650kv, the castle 17170 1580kv out of the xo1, and the tp4060. Not sure which direction I should shoot it! I pretty much just want slight more power than what I have now on the 2200 4274, but lower temps. I may just pick a motor and try it out. Worst case, it’s always good to have back ups ?
 

Nicochau

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  3. MT410
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I think the motors I’ve been kind of narrowing it down to have been the castle 1717 1650kv, the castle 17170 1580kv out of the xo1, and the tp4060. Not sure which direction I should shoot it! I pretty much just want slight more power than what I have now on the 2200 4274, but lower temps. I may just pick a motor and try it out. Worst case, it’s always good to have back ups ?
I wouldn’t go more than 40mm wide. 4082 or 4092 is likely where you should be. Castle has a 1520, check it out.
 

NO02

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I think the motors I’ve been kind of narrowing it down to have been the castle 1717 1650kv, the castle 17170 1580kv out of the xo1, and the tp4060. Not sure which direction I should shoot it! I pretty much just want slight more power than what I have now on the 2200 4274, but lower temps. I may just pick a motor and try it out. Worst case, it’s always good to have back ups ?
TP4060 !

Haven’t tested it yet.
 

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Klappars

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I run a TP 4060 1750kv motor (40x92mm) on 6S with a Castle Mamba Monster X ESC; 17t pinion 44t spur. Originally Badlands 3.8 tyres, now running Backflip LP tyres.

I used to have a Hobbystar 4082 1650kv motor.

Comparing the two, the TP motor is definitely more powerful, particulary in on demand low-mid speed torque. It runs slighltly cooler, not a lot, but it is geared higher so is reaching a higher top speed of around 60mph!

The aim was to make a crazy fast ET48 that would hopefully not overheat while blasting around on grass. The previous 4082 motor was decent, before that I had a Hobbywing 4074 2200kv which did always run pretty hot on 6S but was pretty powerful for it's size. Since I didn't want to compromise and gear down to make the motor cooler, I embarked on finding the ultimate motor.

I do believe that this is one of the best 6S setups for a ET48 or MT410. However, it is worth mentioning that I have had quite a lot more drivetrain issues since running this system, everything from driveshaft pins snapping to spur gear stripping and very regular tyre blowouts. If you want a reliable car, this is not the right setup!

I would therefore reccommend a 4082 size 1700-2000kv motor a a good middle ground, combining that with the best ESC you can afford, a Hobbywing MAX8 as a minimum.
IMG_20200522_225216.jpg

IMG_20200522_225210.jpg
 

Tekno_craze

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I run a TP 4060 1750kv motor (40x92mm) on 6S with a Castle Mamba Monster X ESC; 17t pinion 44t spur. Originally Badlands 3.8 tyres, now running Backflip LP tyres.

I used to have a Hobbystar 4082 1650kv motor.

Comparing the two, the TP motor is definitely more powerful, particulary in on demand low-mid speed torque. It runs slighltly cooler, not a lot, but it is geared higher so is reaching a higher top speed of around 60mph!

The aim was to make a crazy fast ET48 that would hopefully not overheat while blasting around on grass. The previous 4082 motor was decent, before that I had a Hobbywing 4074 2200kv which did always run pretty hot on 6S but was pretty powerful for it's size. Since I didn't want to compromise and gear down to make the motor cooler, I embarked on finding the ultimate motor.

I do believe that this is one of the best 6S setups for a ET48 or MT410. However, it is worth mentioning that I have had quite a lot more drivetrain issues since running this system, everything from driveshaft pins snapping to spur gear stripping and very regular tyre blowouts. If you want a reliable car, this is not the right setup!

I would therefore reccommend a 4082 size 1700-2000kv motor a a good middle ground, combining that with the best ESC you can afford, a Hobbywing MAX8 as a minimum.
View attachment 6443
View attachment 6444
That setup looks killer man!!! I was super interested in the tp motors, how do you think it would get down on 4s? I really plan on staying 4s. I’m not looking for too much more power than what I have at the moment with my hobbywing 4274 2200kv, I mainly just want to be able to blast as hard as I want and not even have to worry about temps. So far this rig has been so stout with everything I throw at it, I want to eliminate the idea of it getting too hot! Haha
 

Tekno_craze

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I wouldn’t go more than 40mm wide. 4082 or 4092 is likely where you should be. Castle has a 1520, check it out.
I’ve actually been looking into the 1520! How come no wider than 40mm? I do remember seeing a big block build by one of the fellow forum members a while back, I believe he used the old xo1 1650kv motor and it looked killer!
 

Guy on a Moose

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That tp4060 is boss dude. I was looking at going tp 4050 2100kv on 4s with mmx esc. I just smashed up pretty good so it will be a month or so before I start thinking about a longer can again.
 

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