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Advice for specific setup... spektrum and castle

dragonwhyr

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I may not have any luck, but for starters please only people who have this setup...

Spektrum dx5c or equivalent (rugged, pro)

Spektrum Sr6100at receiver or equivalent.

Castle mamba monster x8s esc with 1520 1650kv motor

I've built my mt410, but still need electronics...I know I want mmx8s 1520 combo, but have heard about issues with initial setup, calibration, and startup between spektrum and castle products.. then there are those who said they had no problems.. even castle themselves had to post in a faq page about this... question 28 here>> http://support.castlecreations.com/mamba-monster-x-8s-faq. However some of the wording in their solution confuses me..

So if you have this setup, please take the time to help me out and answer some questions..

What was your experience like setting these two products up together? Binding, calibration between tx/rx, calibration between tx/esc?

Some talked about the length of time between powering everything on and it initializing for you to take control... is this a thing? Is this what Castle was saying is solved by hitting the throttle during amber light so the esc will initialize?

If you had issues but the Castle solution helped you, can you please help me understand it?

If you had zero issues I'd like to talk to you about your process as well..

I do hope to find at least one person familiar with this setup who can help me.. tyia
 

Ferrebee88

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When you get it figured out let me know how it goes. My MT410 with a castle mamba x / 2200kv motor on 4s will do standing backflips...
 

dragonwhyr

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When you get it figured out let me know how it goes. My MT410 with a castle mamba x / 2200kv motor on 4s will do standing backflips...
Thanks, but it's not looking like anyone with the knowledge will answer if there is anyone...

What transmitter are you using?

I was originally thinking the 2200 mmx combo, but I heard many talking about heat issues and needing good fans. I live in southeast Texas where there will always be heat issues with motors, that's why I wanted the larger can setup. The 1520 castle motor is a 4188 can vs the 1515 can is 4175.

I have heard good things about the hobbywing max8 g2 combo with 4278 motor can, but I still worry about the heat with where I live since the can size is similar to the 1515 castle motor.. I looked at the hobbywing max 6 system with 4985 motor can, but it's so much wider I don't know if it'll fit in the mt410 motor mount...

Thoughts?!
 
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You can find cheap motors on rcjuice.com. They rip like any brand motor, make sure you change bearings sooner rather than later.

I would personally stick with 42mm diameter cans, add length to add torque and reduce temps. Going 49mm is completely overkill and you may find less reactive and willing to rev.

A 4282 or 4292 with the right kv should work perfectly for an overpowered MT410.
 

Ferrebee88

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People tend to want larger motors as a solution for their builds when picking the right kv to your batteries is really what matters.

You can build a nicely tamed and efficient 6s truck if you pick a 4274 can with 1500 to 1700kv. 6s on a 1500kv is going to run all day long in warm weather too. Some will claim it is much more energy efficient than 4s and will be a lot softer on your batteries too.

4282 (3400W) and 4292 (4200W) motors have all the power in the world for crazy builds. Here is a quick comparison with traditional 1/8 sizes 4274 (2800W) and 4268 (2400W). Those numbers are from HobbyStar.
 

dragonwhyr

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You can find cheap motors on rcjuice.com. They rip like any brand motor, make sure you change bearings sooner rather than later.

I would personally stick with 42mm diameter cans, add length to add torque and reduce temps. Going 49mm is completely overkill and you may find less reactive and willing to rev.

A 4282 or 4292 with the right kv should work perfectly for an overpowered MT410.
Thanks for the reply... I kinda figured the 49 motor would be too wide, but I had no idea about the possibility of it not wanting to be very reactive.. the good news is that the mmx8s 1520 combo is right in the numbers you mentioned, now I just need to figure out the "possible" issue between the binding calibration of Spektrum with castle... back to my original issue lol but at least I know now the max6 system wouldn't benefit me..
The thing about the MT410 is it is light. That is what makes it so quick. From my understanding, a 2200kv motor on 6s will get hot because it technically is pushing past the RPM threshold. 2050kv is more suited for 6s. I have always used my Spektrum DX5C with castle and have never had any issue. I also have the castle programmer usb which is very nice to have.

Check out this thread:
https://www.teknoforums.com/threads/mt410-castle-1717-update-she’s-a-fiddlesticking-ripper.2163/
First off thanks for the reply, but it's funny you mentioned the fiddlesticking ripper thread because that's the thread that solidified my decision to use the 1520.. in fact I posted on that thread trying to get someone to this thread that might have experience with both to help guide me... I'm glad you came though since you use dx5c with castle, so I have some questions for you...

First what castle esc's are you currently using?
what spektrum rx's are you using? Any of them avc (6100, 6110, etc)

Is the correct order of binding/ calibration.... bind tx to rx, calibrate them, restart system, calibrate tx/rx to castle esc, then set end points, trim, etc, then recalibrate tx to rx with new settings?
People tend to want larger motors as a solution for their builds when picking the right kv to your batteries is really what matters.

You can build a nicely tamed and efficient 6s truck if you pick a 4274 can with 1500 to 1700kv. 6s on a 1500kv is going to run all day long in warm weather too. Some will claim it is much more energy efficient than 4s and will be a lot softer on your batteries too.

4282 (3400W) and 4292 (4200W) motors have all the power in the world for crazy builds. Here is a quick comparison with traditional 1/8 sizes 4274 (2800W) and 4268 (2400W). Those numbers are from HobbyStar.
Thanks for the reply, so the only other batteries I have is for my traxxas maxx and I don't plan on using those for this truck.. I'm getting new batteries so I can be open about any combo... but I'm kind of set on the mmx8s 1520 combo so far...

(Bare with me now, I'm still kind new to building/ customizing rc) I'm not really trying to get "extreme over powered rc" I'm mainly doing this setup to battle heat since here in summer it's in the 100's all the time.. any other time than winter is 80-90's... the extra power available is really just going to be "overhead/ buffer" since I won't be pushing it to its max for my use.. I'll be running 4s for a while to learn it, then see how I like it on 6s, I don't plan on ever running 8s

There were a couple things I was having trouble understanding about your comments so please help me out.. you gave can examples with low kvs and you were giving examples in watts, firstly, I'm not sure why hobbystar examples were used with the low watts since hobbywing makes the max8g2 combo I was taking about (are they the same thing? )... secondly when I went to look up the watts for the hobbywing max 8 combo I couldn't find it.... I even went to their website... I haven't looked to see castles yet...

When I went to Google "4282 size rc motor" (since that was an example given by you) it only produced two results.. leopard and racestar... could you perhaps give me a couple of examples of the ones you're referring to so I can take a look?
 
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(Bare with me now, I'm still kind new to building/ customizing rc) I'm not really trying to get "extreme over powered rc" I'm mainly doing this setup to battle heat since here in summer it's in the 100's all the time.. any other time than winter is 80-90's... the extra power available is really just going to be "overhead/ buffer" since I won't be pushing it to its max for my use.. I'll be running 4s for a while to learn it, then see how I like it on 6s, I don't plan on ever running 8s
Understood. With the 1520, which is a 4288 can with 1650kv, you have plenty of room to play with.
There were a couple things I was having trouble understanding about your comments so please help me out.. you gave can examples with low kvs and you were giving examples in watts, firstly, I'm not sure why hobbystar examples were used with the low watts since hobbywing makes the max8g2 combo I was taking about (are they the same thing? )... secondly when I went to look up the watts for the hobbywing max 8 combo I couldn't find it.... I even went to their website... I haven't looked to see castles yet...
Here is how you should think about it:
* watts are maximum power potential. The larger the motor, the more power it can deliver. The power numbers I shared with you, will give you an indication of how much more powerful are those larger motors are.
* kv is a measure of how the motor is going to respond to voltage. The higher the kv rating, the faster the motor will rotate, the more current it will draw and the warmer it will get. This is why lower kv motors do a lot better with high voltage 6s batteries and / or warmer weather.

The 1520 can absolutely run a 4s battery and be geared up (like 22t or 23t pinion) in order to still offer some top speed. But this motor will obviously shine on 6s. BTW, I'm not debating your motor selection (that Castle is an absolute beast), I'm just trying to give you an idea of how this thing is going to run based on math and it’s physical characteristics.

Let's assume your 4s is at 4V per cell: 16V x 1650kv = 26,400 rpm (motor rotation speed)
26,400 x 22t (pinion) / 44t (diff spur) = 13,200 rpm at the driveline. = ~42.9 MPH with Truggy tires.

Now the same math with 6s: 24V x 1650kv = 39,600 rpm (still reasonable speed)
With 22t pinion driveline will be at 19,800 rpm = ~64.4 MPH (that's a lot of speed)
With 16t pinion driveline speed will be 39,600 x 16t / 44t = 14,400 rpm (a lot closer to your 4s speed with 22t pinion) = ~46.8 MPH (nice and easy for such a beast of a motor)

Reducing the pinion size will reduce speed, but also make it easy on the motor and reduce temps.

Here is a calculator if you want to play with the numbers:
https://www.radiocontrolinfo.com/information/rc-calculators/rc-car-calculator/

Motor KV1650LiPo Cells4 or 6
Pinion # Teethfrom 16 to 22Spur #44
Diff Pinion #9Spur #40
Tire Diameter (mm)143
Racing Truggy tires are = 143mm tall
Backflips LP (4s) = 156mm tall
Backflips 6s = 172mm tall

Just to give you some reference points:
  • 6s with 2200kv motor = 24V x 2200kv = 52,800 rpm, which is pushing it for motors rated at max rpm in the 60,000
  • 4s with 2000kv = 16V x 2000kv = 32,000 rpm, which is considered a sweet spot. Ideally run with 16t or 17t pinions for a top speed around 40 MPH.
Your 1520 Castle motor won't be slow on 4s if geared high at 22t (will easily get you ~45 MPH), about right and with a healthy rpm on 6s with a 16 to 18t pinion (top speed on the ~60 MPH). Which seems to be exactly what you are looking for.


When I went to Google "4282 size rc motor" (since that was an example given by you) it only produced two results.. leopard and racestar... could you perhaps give me a couple of examples of the ones you're referring to so I can take a look?

Here is a link to the HobbyStar 4082:
https://www.rcjuice.com/motor-esc/b...ensorless-motor-1-8-truggy-monster-truck.html

PS: 4082 and 4282 is the same can size. 42xx usually used to refer to sensored motors, while the 40xx tend to be non-sensored.
 

Ferrebee88

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With the DX5C I am using an SR515 with the mamba X and a SR215 with the MMX. I don't fool around with the AVC receivers. I personally like the driving experience much better without AVC. I bind the receiver to the radio. Then I go through the calibration process with the ESC. Check out the video link. It is very helpful. Then I set the endpoints. Side note... wait until you power up the esc before attaching the servo horn to the servo. It will make centering it much easier.

 

dragonwhyr

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Understood. With the 1520, which is a 4288 can with 1650kv, you have plenty of room to play with.

Here is how you should think about it:
* watts are maximum power potential. The larger the motor, the more power it can deliver. The power numbers I shared with you, will give you an indication of how much more powerful are those larger motors are.
* kv is a measure of how the motor is going to respond to voltage. The higher the kv rating, the faster the motor will rotate, the more current it will draw and the warmer it will get. This is why lower kv motors do a lot better with high voltage 6s batteries and / or warmer weather.

The 1520 can absolutely run a 4s battery and be geared up (like 22t or 23t pinion) in order to still offer some top speed. But this motor will obviously shine on 6s. BTW, I'm not debating your motor selection (that Castle is an absolute beast), I'm just trying to give you an idea of how this thing is going to run based on math and it’s physical characteristics.

Let's assume your 4s is at 4V per cell: 16V x 1650kv = 26,400 rpm (motor rotation speed)
26,400 x 22t (pinion) / 44t (diff spur) = 13,200 rpm at the driveline. = ~42.9 MPH with Truggy tires.

Now the same math with 6s: 24V x 1650kv = 39,600 rpm (still reasonable speed)
With 22t pinion driveline will be at 19,800 rpm = ~64.4 MPH (that's a lot of speed)
With 16t pinion driveline speed will be 39,600 x 16t / 44t = 14,400 rpm (a lot closer to your 4s speed with 22t pinion) = ~46.8 MPH (nice and easy for such a beast of a motor)

Reducing the pinion size will reduce speed, but also make it easy on the motor and reduce temps.

Here is a calculator if you want to play with the numbers:
https://www.radiocontrolinfo.com/information/rc-calculators/rc-car-calculator/

Motor KV1650LiPo Cells4 or 6
Pinion # Teethfrom 16 to 22Spur #44
Diff Pinion #9Spur #40
Tire Diameter (mm)143

Racing Truggy tires are = 143mm tall
Backflips LP (4s) = 156mm tall
Backflips 6s = 172mm tall

Just to give you some reference points:
  • 6s with 2200kv motor = 24V x 2200kv = 52,800 rpm, which is pushing it for motors rated at max rpm in the 60,000
  • 4s with 2000kv = 16V x 2000kv = 32,000 rpm, which is considered a sweet spot. Ideally run with 16t or 17t pinions for a top speed around 40 MPH.
Your 1520 Castle motor won't be slow on 4s if geared high at 22t (will easily get you ~45 MPH), about right and with a healthy rpm on 6s with a 16 to 18t pinion (top speed on the ~60 MPH). Which seems to be exactly what you are looking for.




Here is a link to the HobbyStar 4082:
https://www.rcjuice.com/motor-esc/b...ensorless-motor-1-8-truggy-monster-truck.html

PS: 4082 and 4282 is the same can size. 42xx usually used to refer to sensored motors, while the 40xx tend to be non-sensored.
Holy poop, I actually understood that! I've tried looking up motor power/ kv/ can size, trying to figure out how they work and what they mean/ do, and someone once tried to quickly explain it to me in dm... but I never fully got what they were saying, you made it much easier with examples that relate to me, thank you so much... and yes those numbers, speed, everything is perfect... I'm not only glad I picked the perfect combo, but also glad I now understand why it works so well..

I'm definitely going to look at this other motors you suggested so I can compare them with my new knowledge lol... I was thinking about building a sand drag/ rail for a future project, and everything I learned makes me feel me confidant that I actually could...

Thanks again man!
 
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dragonwhyr

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With the DX5C I am using an SR515 with the mamba X and a SR215 with the MMX. I don't fool around with the AVC receivers. I personally like the driving experience much better without AVC. I bind the receiver to the radio. Then I go through the calibration process with the ESC. Check out the video link. It is very helpful. Then I set the endpoints. Side note... wait until you power up the esc before attaching the servo horn to the servo. It will make centering it much easier.

Oh okay I see... I wonder if it's the avc part of the other receivers that give people issues during the bind/ calibration process...

I'll admit I'm not a perfect driver but I do learn from mistakes and try to learn how to prevent issues later on to improve my skills, I was going to use avc to help learn the truck and soften the blow of the consequences of my screw up since it helps correct... but I may have to just bite the bullet if I can't get my avc receiver to bind/ calibrate properly and get one of the two you mentioned above.. I still hope there someone out there who uses my current receiver and comes in with a solution so I don't have to get another one..

When I was upgrading the servo in my traxxas maxx, I had that thought, to let the servo center itself before attaching the horn, and tried it out... seemed to work for me, glad to know I stumbled on something correct lol... I'll be sure to continue this, but thanks for dropping a tip, there's alot I'm still learning especially since this is my first kit build... any other tips, I welcome them!

My only other truck is my maxx. The dx5c is a new purchase as well as the mt410, and I plan on moving the maxx over to the dx5c once I finally get everything I need to finish my mt410 build...

Thanks for all your input, I hope my experience goes as smooth as yours, I'm still kind nervous especially since castle themselves had to post on their faq page about it...
 

Ferrebee88

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Oh okay I see... I wonder if it's the avc part of the other receivers that give people issues during the bind/ calibration process...

I'll admit I'm not a perfect driver but I do learn from mistakes and try to learn how to prevent issues later on to improve my skills, I was going to use avc to help learn the truck and soften the blow of the consequences of my screw up since it helps correct... but I may have to just bite the bullet if I can't get my avc receiver to bind/ calibrate properly and get one of the two you mentioned above.. I still hope there someone out there who uses my current receiver and comes in with a solution so I don't have to get another one..

When I was upgrading the servo in my traxxas maxx, I had that thought, to let the servo center itself before attaching the horn, and tried it out... seemed to work for me, glad to know I stumbled on something correct lol... I'll be sure to continue this, but thanks for dropping a tip, there's alot I'm still learning especially since this is my first kit build... any other tips, I welcome them!

My only other truck is my maxx. The dx5c is a new purchase as well as the mt410, and I plan on moving the maxx over to the dx5c once I finally get everything I need to finish my mt410 build...

Thanks for all your input, I hope my experience goes as smooth as yours, I'm still kind nervous especially since castle themselves had to post on their faq page about it...
I use the dx5c with the xmaxx along with a savox servo. Another tip... self righting feature will make tires explode. That happened to me twice. Stock tires aren't so great, but the duratrax six pack belted tires are awesome!
 

dragonwhyr

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I use the dx5c with the xmaxx along with a savox servo. Another tip... self righting feature will make tires explode. That happened to me twice. Stock tires aren't so great, but the duratrax six pack belted tires are awesome!
Oh cool, I wanted an Xmax but the cost of it and the lack of room to really let it loose held me back, so I got the maxx.. I grew to really love that maxx tho.. ya I rarely use self righting, only if it's really far away.. I got the maxx when it was v1 and had to buy the wide arms and sledgehammers and steel cvds.. kinda feel ripped lol...

So hey watching that video reminded me of another question I should have asked you... in the issues I'm worried about... one of the things said was that the castle esc requires you to go full throttle for it to initialize (which is still really weird to me) but the sr6100 receiver won't initialize with full throttle being pulled... they said something about waiting for the receiver to flash amber (which is orange according to spektrum guide) and then pull full throttle for the esc, or something along those lines... do your receivers do that or are you able to just pull full throttle after turning on, and go straight into controlling it?

Edit: maybe I'm misunderstanding something in the wording... the pulling of the full throttle... is that every time you turn on truck? Or is that only to enter calibration mode? Like once you have everything calibrate and done, do you go straight to controlling the truck, or is there a lag until you pull full throttle just to be able to drive?
 
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Ferrebee88

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My bad, I misread and thought you said you had an xmaxx. I've never got to play with a maxx.

After you calibrate the esc, you just turn on your remote and then turn on your esc. It will do its startup beeps and detect your lipo battery. You are good to go at that point. No need to hit the throttle.
 

nub

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dragonwhyr I think you're over complicating this a bit and trying to solve an issue you don't have.

With Castle the pulling of the throttle when you power up the esc is how you put it into calibration mode to set the throttle end points. You do it once if it completes without issue with a new install. After this you power up normal with the radio first and then the esc, no trigger.

In the future if you change radio gear or esc you need to calibrate the radio and esc following the esc manufactures instructions. This is standard practice to teach the esc what full throttle, full brake/reverse and neutral are from the radio inputs.

I think some of the issues you're worried about are people not following instructions or missing a step in the process. I know I've done this before and had some choice words for myself after figuring out what I did or didn't do.
 

dragonwhyr

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dragonwhyr I think you're over complicating this a bit and trying to solve an issue you don't have.

With Castle the pulling of the throttle when you power up the esc is how you put it into calibration mode to set the throttle end points. You do it once if it completes without issue with a new install. After this you power up normal with the radio first and then the esc, no trigger.

In the future if you change radio gear or esc you need to calibrate the radio and esc following the esc manufactures instructions. This is standard practice to teach the esc what full throttle, full brake/reverse and neutral are from the radio inputs.

I think some of the issues you're worried about are people not following instructions or missing a step in the process. I know I've done this before and had some choice words for myself after figuring out what I did or didn't do.
And you may be right, I admit it... I guess the main reason I'm so worried is that with how little cash I get to put aside for rc, and how much the combo costs, running into an issue like all this would really be a big set back and I'd end up having to bite the bullet..

I'm also trying to get all the knowledge I can so I'm more confident about solving any issues that may come up.. this is my first rc build... I appreciate your real talk and I do agree to an extent.. this thread has made me feel a lot more confident that I can do it, and put me in contact with some others who use the same equipment (or close to it lol) who I can reach out to if I can't figure something out.
 

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